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Hibiki54
Rank: Corporal
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Subject: Robotech ASC verses Babylon 5 Mimbari
Started on: September 14, 2005 - 7:19:05 PM
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I might as well start one.
The topic of this thread is the Army of the Southern Cross (including TASC) against the Mimbari from Babylon 5.
Here is the situation. The Invid never came to Earth and the ASC and our planet had recovered. The technology level of Earth is a cross between ASC and New Gen. Human influence had expanded further than Tirol were we come in contact with the Mimbari. Like in Babylon 5, what was suppose to be a sign of respect and friendship by the Mimbari (gun ports open) is seen as a hostile act and humans fire the first shots of what turns into the Earth-Mimbari War (Third Robotech War). The year is 2060, most of the heroes from the 1st and 2nd Robotech War are retired or dead and now humanity will be facing another interstellar war with an partially known species.
What humans have avaliable:
Recovered Army of the Southern Cross
REF Fleet with SDF-3 and SDF-4
No Neutron-S missiles (had not need to even develop them)
Alphas and Betas (no shadows because of the lack of need)
The Mimbari the ASC/REF are facing are pre-Babylon 5, meaning that the White Stars do not exist. Mimbari Fleet consist mostly of Sharlins war cruisers, Tinashi war frigates and Nial Windstar heavy fighters.
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Response 1 of 122  |
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Darrtallion
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: umm
Posted on: September 14, 2005 - 8:02:10 PM
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Dont the Mimbari still have a huge difference in weapons technology and that the Starfuries where just as agile as the Veritechs. Not to mention the limited number of capital ships.
The only question I have is the Robotech Satalite. Is this fully functional making REF mecha or is it now a hunk of junk. Also with the knowladge of cloning and what not gather from the Zentraedi Would the humans get passed the morals and try to clone a whole new army?
I think the Mimbari would have maybe more of a challange then the Original scenario but in the End they are using far greater firepower. One of the Few that are capable of Gigaton force. They do have the listed powersourse of a quatumsingularity that puts out ruffly 330 exawatts of power. Not to mention the other back up and supporting systems for power. This means with that kind of power they would be able to reach the power capacity to power weapons in the gigaton range.
I think the REF would be pretty much destroyed if they went up against a Mimbari Fleet. The Mimbari are just to advance and to well powered. While the Earth forces are running low on power and just barely got into space travel. Might add through the help of an alien influence which probably gives them a slightly better chance then the other time line. | |
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Keroberos
Rank: Private
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Subject: ...like the battle of...
Posted on: September 14, 2005 - 10:06:49 PM
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hehehehe,
During the Earth-Mimbari war, the Earth Alliance (EA) discovered the location of a fontline Mimbari outpost. In an effort to strike back at the Mimbari, EA launched an attack by a fleet of over 40 cruiser, consisting of Nova's and Hyperion's.
The Mimbari, knew the EA Fleet was coming, and sent all but 8 of their Sharlin Warcruisers to a staging point in Hyperspace.
When the EA Fleet emurged from Hyperspace, they were still several LM (Light-Minutes) from the Outpost, so in order to suprise the Mimbari, they headed to the base at top speed.
The Mimbari 'walled' themselves between the base and the fleet, and waited for the EA fleet to fire first.
As soon as the EA fleet got into range, they launched there Starfuries and set in to attack the Mimbari Garrison.
When the First Nova opened fire, the Sharlins attack relentlessly. The Mimbari kill all but one Starfury pilot, a tactic the mimbari like to use...FEAR...
...The battle lasted 8 seconds...
CONSIDERING the INFERIOR TECH of Robotech, they would stand as much of a challange as the EA forces. Remember, there were over 800 Sharlin War Cruisers at the "Battle of the Line", and only 1 Sharlin War Cruiser was EVER destroyed.
Not to mention that Mimbari Poly-Crystalline Armour is around 100x stronger then Earth materials.
...if i was a soldier for the ASC, id defect to the Mimbari, id live that way... | |
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Darrtallion
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: Yea I think the only thing that the REF has for them
Posted on: September 14, 2005 - 10:22:23 PM
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Yea I think the only thing that the REF has for them is the ability to run. Since fold engines are not apart of Bab5 universe I don't think that the Mimbari have the technology to track it. So They have one good solution. Run. Or at the very worst Defold inside a Mimbari Ship. Maybe a little suicidal but at least you scratch one Mimbari. Other then that I think the REF are Toast. | |
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Dire Wolf
Rank: Master Sergeant
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Subject: Then there is
Posted on: September 14, 2005 - 11:33:46 PM
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the fact that the Mimbari are extremly hard to target. As for pretty much the enitre EA/Mibari war their targetting computers of the EA had a almost impossible time targetting the Mibari warships. | |
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"The warrior who acts out of honour cannot fail. His duty is honour itself. Even his death – if it is honourable – is a great reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear." | | | |
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Brooklyn Red Leg
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: .......
Posted on: September 14, 2005 - 11:38:03 PM
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Ok,
care to ponder a Sharlin surviving a barrage from a Tristar-class Cruiser Leader's Skylord stand-off nuclear/reflex missiles? Missiles, I might add, that have warheads in the 3Mt range? I do believe The Black Star was destroyed by nukes much less powerful than that. Think one could survive a barrage from a grouping of 30-40 Spacelord stand-off nuclear/reflex missiles in the 150 Kt range that are mounted in 10-shot vertical launch tubes on the Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders, Ardennes-class Battlecruisers or Nelson-class Destroyers?
I might remind you that the Southern Cross fleet consisted of more than:
29 Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders
104 Ardennes-class Battlecruisers
208 Nelson-class Destroyers
Oh, might I also point out that ships in the post-Macross era have hyperspace capabilities, specifically space fold (go anywhere almost instantaneously) as well as real-time FTL communications.
I love Babylon 5, but Im sorry, the space fleets in Robotech would make mincemeat of the Minbari. After the Zentraedi Rain of Death, the UEF Space forces are not hesitant to use nukes in large quantities. | |
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Humor is a sense that can only avail itself when something funny is present. You are funny, but only in a pathetically ironic manner.
It's not that history repeats itself, it's that stupidity is a congenital condition.
- Morthoron | | | |
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Keroberos
Rank: Private
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Subject: Brooklyn,
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 12:13:50 AM
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Care to tell me HOW much of a B5 fan you are? cause you obviously have no idea about the Technology differance between the two...
The Nukes used by the EA Hyperion that destroyed the Flagship "DARKSTAR", were over twice as heavy as anything the ASC has. Hell, anything the REF has. Did we bother to read the little history of the EA/Mimbari war i put up?... i doubt it.
Like usual,
we get cought in one of those situations that resaults in people not knowing a damn thing about both sides Tech, and the fact that someone would say that RT tech actually QUALIFIES to DAMAGE a ship like a Sharlin, is greatly insaulting...
RT/Macross, while GREAT at the wide range, varity and styling of Starships and Warships, dont have a single weapon that can compete with Weapons from REAL SCI-FI shows like Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica and Andromeda (too bad Andromeda lost the storyline  ).
To sum it up for you, HOW will you defend yourself from a single Sharlins Neutron Beam when it has a power output of over 400,000 Terawatts? and they have 18 of them. 18 Gravitic Fusion beams, 24 EM Neutron guns, 24 EM Fusion guns, 42 Electro-Pulse guns, 1 Antimatter Cannon (in Theory) and an Optional Mass Driver of Vorlon Proportion...
Remember, The Mimbari are liked by the Vorlons, and the Vorlons rewarded them by Technological advancement after the Shadow war 1000 years ago.
Id like to know how you intend to destroy 1 Sharlin, let alone over 800 of them... Remember, they will learn from the first time you use the "John Sheriden Manouver"... | |
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Dire Wolf
Rank: Master Sergeant
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Subject: The problem with the Reflex weapons
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 1:30:20 AM
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Is they seem to rely soley on the direct impact for them to make a kill. They don't seem to have proximity fuse(the reason the nuke in B5 worked was that it was used in a proximity fashion, to ingulf the ship). So it still boils down to the almost near impossiblily to target the Mibari warships if you are at a tech disadvantage. | |
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"The warrior who acts out of honour cannot fail. His duty is honour itself. Even his death – if it is honourable – is a great reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear." | | | |
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Brooklyn Red Leg
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: .......
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 1:36:09 AM
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The Nukes used by the EA Hyperion that destroyed the Flagship "DARKSTAR", were over twice as heavy as anything the ASC has.
Um, excuse me, I do believe Sheridan says 'tactical nukes' when he asks about mining the asteroid field. That would mean nukes in the low kiloton range.
Remember, they will learn from the first time you use the "John Sheriden Manouver"...
I'm not talking about mining an asteroid field you...... Every single United Earth Force warship carries thermonuclear tipped missiles. | |
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Humor is a sense that can only avail itself when something funny is present. You are funny, but only in a pathetically ironic manner.
It's not that history repeats itself, it's that stupidity is a congenital condition.
- Morthoron | | | |
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Keroberos
Rank: Private
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Subject: ...
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 2:04:34 AM
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i know,
And like i said, Those ASC missiles are barely going to scratch the blue paint off the Poly-Crystalline armour of a Sharlin War Cruiser.
Heres what your trying to debate...
An Ant Vs My foot...
The Ant can run, but im heavy and bigger then the Ant, and in one fine stomp, the ants dead...
I think thats the best Analogy anyone could do...  | |
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Darrtallion
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: Got to Question Sensors
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 9:19:17 AM
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I am sure the REF sensors are now basically like the Zentraedi sensors with fold you need to be able to predict accurately where you going to land on the other side of the galaxy or universe. So I think the REF sensors are a little more effective then the Normal Earth sensors used in the Earth/Mimbari War. This might give them the ability to lock on their weapons. And they probably do have proximity fuses on the nukes its just they probably went for a dirrect hit more then anything.
But Remember the Robotech Masters can Beat anyone they are gods of war. LOL sorry had to run with that again.
But I still think the only solution that the Ref could really use to beat the Mimbari is to litterally defold inside one of their ships. A litle suicidal but at least it gets the job done.
By the way there are some ant's in africa that would eat you alive. So your analogy is not all that great sometimes even the smallest things can cause great damage. So don't underestimate.
There is the possibility that the main Cannons could do some damage. Even some of the Zents ships had main Cannons and they could have been removed and placed in some of the ref ships or at least they could do so later. Lots of ships to dispose of. Maybe even make the Mimbari think twice if you have a few 1000 ships lines up. Its all about tactics as well.
But in all reality there is not that much the Ref could do technologically. | |
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Developer - Texture Artist
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Keroberos
Rank: Private
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Subject: Actually...
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 9:31:27 AM
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Darts on the right track...
Since The Mimbari have been fighting the Shadows and/or Shadow dark servents for over a 1000 years, the Mimbari know afew Tactics too.
The Nial fighters "Skid-dancing" for instance... not even a Valkyrie could keep up with a turn like that...
But heres my Point-
Energy Weapons of almost any proportion do little damage to the Mimbari's unique Poly Crystalline armour... However, As seen in "In the Beginning", EA DID find an effective weakness to Mimbari Armour.
*smirks*
Did you know Poly-Crystalline armour has a low tollerance to kinetic damage? Thats why so many EA Starfuries made suicide attacks, it was seriously the only way to damage a Mimbari vessel.
As seen by Sinclair at the time-
He set full power to engines, set an overload to the Micro-Fusion core, and set a collision course with the Sharlin in front of him.
Now, Im not saying that the ASC should do suicide attacks to actually make an effective attack, but its obvious that they were willing to do it already...
Who knows, the ASC might actually destroy 3 Sharlins by the time they run out of ships to use... | |
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Brooklyn Red Leg
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: .........
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 11:23:09 AM
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i know, And like i said, Those ASC missiles are barely going to scratch the blue paint off the Poly-Crystalline armour of a Sharlin War Cruiser.
Are you stupid or something? Sheridan's 'tactical nukes' would be in the low kiloton range (1 - 10Kt) while the Spacelord missiles have warheads in the 150Kt range. The Tristar's mount Skylord missiles that have warheads in the 3Mt (thats megaton if you don't know) range.
If 4 Sharlins can be taken out by proximity fused low kiloton range nukes, I fail to see how the ASC, which was noted for lobbing barrages (10-shot volleys) of 150Kt nukes at the Masters, would somehow fare worse. | |
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Humor is a sense that can only avail itself when something funny is present. You are funny, but only in a pathetically ironic manner.
It's not that history repeats itself, it's that stupidity is a congenital condition.
- Morthoron | | | |
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Keroberos
Rank: Private
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Subject: ...
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 11:30:48 AM
Edited on: September 15, 2005 - 11:32:05 AM
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Watch In The Beginning...
The EA Nuke used to destroy the DarkStar are 10 Megaton nukes, and it took what, 2? 3? to destroy the ship?
The other way that your idea is flawed is that the Mimbari WarCruiser would just slice the missile in-half before it could hit the ship... hell, they have around 128 individual weapon ports on a Sharlin, using afew to shoot down the Skylords wont temperarily stop them from slicing up the ASC fleets... 
BTW, Brooklyn,
Shouldn't insault people by calling them stupid... Steve's banned people for less then that...  | |
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Brooklyn Red Leg
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: ......
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 11:36:00 AM
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Did you know Poly-Crystalline armour has a low tollerance to kinetic damage?
Better wipe that smirk off your face. The Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders and the Ardennes-class Battlecruisers both carry...thats right....rail gun emplacements! There goes your Sharlin when a series of 1.69kg Kinetic Core Penetrators tear it to shreds. | |
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Humor is a sense that can only avail itself when something funny is present. You are funny, but only in a pathetically ironic manner.
It's not that history repeats itself, it's that stupidity is a congenital condition.
- Morthoron | | | |
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Darth Mimic
Rank: Master Chief Sgt
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Subject: BRL might know better than me...
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 1:54:58 PM
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... but weren't the ASC ships used to ram the Masters in ASC? And if a Mimbari ship was more vulnerable to kinetic energy, wouldn't it make sense to have nukes actually hit it rather than explode in proximity?
Personally, I think the ASC would win because the Mimbari are too embroiled in boring politics... poly-crystalline my Aunt Fanny! We've seen the ASC employ a hugely successful tactic against the Masters before; they infiltrate ships with hovertanks.
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"Love each other, or die."
Auden | | | |
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magalord1
Rank: Master Chief Sgt
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Subject: Darth Mimic
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 2:42:05 PM
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They did, on at least two occasions. 1 was a Tokugawa class carrier,(which actualy was an REF ship), it rammand and destroyed one of the masters motherships after being crippled. The other instances of ramming were in the ep. Mind Games, where Emerson's Tri-Star rams a mothership to widen a hull breach for Dana's troops; and in the ep. Final Nightmare, where Emerson's Tri-Star rams another mothership in an attempt to destroy it. | |
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You're never too old to be a fan of Robotech
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Marshal of the Dark Fin
Wielder of the Tuna Of Infinite Fury
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magalord1
Rank: Master Chief Sgt
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Subject: Also....
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 2:46:21 PM
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I would think that my fleet (from my story that I'm working on), would fare even better then the other SCA ships. | |
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You're never too old to be a fan of Robotech
DOL member
Marshal of the Dark Fin
Wielder of the Tuna Of Infinite Fury
Darkness 24
Supporter of the RMC
Honary head of the Dective Bureau of GMP Investigations | | | |
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Darrtallion
Rank: Lieutenant
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Subject: Kero Is wrong about the armor
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 3:59:39 PM
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The Mimbari Are somewhat acceptable to kinetic energy you still have to bring down the shields in order to have it affective and then you have to get passed all the weapons that have virtually no recharge time. You have to be lucky and catch the Mimbari off gaurd. So being able to ram the ship is very hard and you have to be able to launch a successful attack.
The Minbari War Cruiser appears to be virtually unstoppable, with no major known weakness to speak of. The ships armor and deflector fields make conventional weapons almost useless against Sharlin class vessels in open combat conditions. Beyond this, advanced sensors warn Minbari crews of any impending attack, jamming systems make it easy for Minbari forces to attack without warning and there are few ships that can deliver as massive a weapons payload as a War Cruiser. Centauri sources, however, seem to indicate that the dreaded Sharlin class War Cruiser does have one weakness, that is nearly impossible to exploit.
It would seem that the Minbari's gravimetric drive systems, which is often the key to their victories (as it is used to provide shielding and significantly enhance their weapons), is also their only true weakness. The large fins characteristic of Minbari and Centauri vessels alike are, in fact, the projection system for their gravimetric drive system. Should these fins be damage or blown off, the gravimetric field used for propulsion could collapse. Minbari capital ships use gravimetric drives exclusively and does not use any other known form of propulsion, such as ion or plasma engines. Thus, theoretically, if serious damage were to be inflicted upon any one of the Sharlin's four fins, the ship would be effectively disabled for several minutes. This was decisively proven in 2259 when the Minbari Cruiser Tragati had its rear gravimetric fin cut in half by another Minbari vessel
While this tactic would be effective in combat, and Earthforce fighters attempted to exploit this weakness via kamikaze attacks, it would take a large number of heavily armed vessels to provide enough firepower to penetrate Minbari deflector fields and armor, let alone inflict damage significant enough to disable a Sharlin class War Cruisers gravimetric drive system. In theory, the combined firepower of three Earthforce Omega class Destroyers would be sufficient to do the job.
Omega class Destroyers are driven by four BB9K Ion/Particle thrust engines** and powered by four Military-Type General Fusion 650 high-energy fusion reactors. Using gelled deuterium as fuel for the reactors, the Omega has a total fuel reserve of over 296 million kilograms, with a total potential energy of 1.83*1023 joule.** Given the Omega's estimated mission duration of eighteen months, the total power output of the Omega's four fusion reactors is approximately 3,943 Terawatts. Under combat conditions, estimated power output is 101,408 Terawatts, over a duration of three weeks. With this high a power output, the Omega class Destroyer the ability to form it's own jump point into hyperspace using four Lockheed-Mitchell Corp. vortex generators.
With the Combat power output the Omega class ships have the potential of powering their pulse cannons in the gigaton range. From what I gather the need for haveing such large power needs is due to the Jumpgate system. So being able to apply that amount of power to other components would seem to be a natural side effect.
Although Robotech has a bit of firepower behind it We are more likely to believe it is in the megaton range and not in the gigaton range. | |
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Developer - Texture Artist
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Hibiki54
Rank: Corporal
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Subject: ....
Posted on: September 15, 2005 - 6:38:53 PM
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The only question I have is the Robotech Satalite
Sorry, I forgot to add that. I thought it was a given. Yes, it is present in Earth solar orbit.
Thats why so many EA Starfuries made suicide attacks, it was seriously the only way to damage a Mimbari vessel.
Actually, pilots did suicide attacks to the FINS of the Sharlins where the gravametric drives are located. By taking off the fins, this could effectively disable a Sharlin and set them adrift.
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