It goes towards the credibility and reliability of the Empire's scanners, as ST scanners can detect things light-years away.

Yeah, just like how the Empire had trouble with the weather on Hoth, right?

Heh, they call that "selective memory." I suggest that you need to rewatch Voyager again. There was an episode where they attempted to raid a damaged Borg ship to steal a few of it's transwarp coils. Then there was another episode where they were searching the debris of a destroyed Borg ship trying to find a working transwarp coil.

Earth is not the most important planet in the galaxy.

First off ALL energy has a frequency that it resonates at; that's science fact. Next, the .45 (like all weapons) would only effect the first few Borg that encountered it, afterwhich they'd adapt.

Why do you think the Federation didn't just start replicating projectile weapons?

It's already been established that Borg assimilation tubules are capable of penetrating every known alloy or energy field. The ST armor would pose no problem at all.

Stronger? Not even close. Faster? Not a chance. Smarter? A single individual working against the collective minds of trillions?

Yet again, a bold claim w/o facts to back it up.

Wrong. We have seen them operating at lower settings. Riker (and a few others) have mentioned that at the highest settings, a hand phaser could take out the side of a building.

The Defiant (a small warship) could destroy a small planet with two shots.

The oldest species mentioned in the ST Universe was 4 billion years old. Does the Empire have any races that old?

That must travel on pre-existing hyperspace routes.

And as I just said, the Defiant (the Federation's smallest class of warship) ca destroy a small planet with two shots. Can a Star Destroyer do the same?

Perfect enough to fool the Empire.

These portals are pan-dimensional. You can't block them with jammers.

Oh for the love of... The weapon phases just long enough to by-pass enemy defenses, then phase back to normal.

The Roumulans and the Federation. It was seen in two episodes. One where Riker and his old commander (now an admiral) took the Enterprise to look for the Federation ship "Pegesus" that had a cloak that could also allow the ship to phase through solid matter. Then again when the Enterprise arrived to aid a Romulan ship that was working on their own and Gordi and Ensign Ro ended up phased

Uh, no. There are no mediclorians in the lifeforms of the ST Universe, thus the Force would have no effect on them.

You'd really put some idiot civilian smugglers with blasters and some storm troopers against Klingons, Hirogen, Jem Ha'dar, Nausicans, Borg and 8472 (to name only a few)?

ICONIAN GATEWAYS- The Iconian gateway was a technology developed by the ancient Iconians. The gateway allowed instantaneous travel over enormous distances; at least 70,000 light-years. Physically the gateway appeared literally as a "door", either suspended in space or surrounded by a frame, through which was the destination. An individual could simply step through the gateway as they would an ordinary door and emerge on the other side. The gateway network allowed the Iconians to travel throughout the galaxy without the use of starships.

INTERPHASE CLOAKS- The interphase cloaking device was an advanced type of cloaking device that allows a starship to travel through solid matter and high-energy fields. A molecular phase inverter moves the ship out of phase with the spacetime continuum. It can be ship mounted, or used for individuals.

ABLATIVE ARMOR- Ablative armor was designed to disintegrate at a controlled rate under energy blasts, providing an additional layer of defense for starships if their shields failed.

MONOTANIUM ARMOR PLATING- Monotanium armor plating was a Hirogen hull enhancement. This plating offers extra protection and it has the added effect of scattering targeting beams.

REACTIVE ARMOR- Reactive armor is a type of armor that explodes outwards to deflect incoming weapons fire.

REFRACTIVE SHIELDS- The refractive shield is a technology that prevents a vessel from being detected on long-range sensors. Devore warships are equipped with refractive shields.

METAPHASIC SHIELDING- Metaphasic shielding is capable of withstanding the pressure and energy of a star's corona. The technology was installed on the Shuttlecraft Justman, but Reyga was murdered by Takaran scientist Jo'Bril shortly before the shields were proven. Subsequently, Dr. Beverly Crusher successfully demonstrated the shield's effectiveness by piloting the Justman into the corona of the star Veytan. Commander Geordi La Forge developed the technology further for use on the USS Enterprise-D in 2370. These modifications allowed the Enterprise-D to lure a Rogue Borg ship into a star's corona and destroy it with a solar flare.

CHRONITON TORPEDOES- These torpedoes are based on temporal science, and exist in a constant state of temporal flux. This allows them to pass unhindered through the shields of enemy ships. The torpedoes had individual temporal variences, an example of which was one torpedo which had a varience of 1.47 milliseconds.

TRANSPHASIC TORPEDOS- The transphasic torpedo was a Starfleet weapon developed sometime in the 2380s in a future alternate timeline.

BIO-MOLECULAR WARHEADS-Bio-molecular warheads are antimatter torpedoes modified to deliver specialized Borg nanoprobes to a target vessel upon detonation, originally devised during a brief alliance between the USS Voyager and the Borg.

THALORON RADIATION- Thalaron radiation exerts a negative effect on organic matter, much like its lower-frequency cousin, gamma radiation. However, whereas gamma radiation merely causes the mutation of an organism's genome, thalaron radiation causes instant and complete necrosis in every cell it irradiates. Following exposure, the organism degenerates into an ash-like material, completely devoid of life. Due to its massive destructive potential, thalaron radiation is considered to be a biogenic weapon.

I could continue, but I think you see the point by now. In a battle against any single force of the ST Universe (with the possible exceptions of the Borg and Species 8472), the Empire would probably win. But when you have the total sum of the ST Universe working together in the common goal against the total sum of the SW Universe, ST takes it.

And It would seem that they either couldn't put them to use, or they weren't usable. As Voyager had to use the hub to get home.

It would seem that it is given that they sent their queen after it. Besides the Borg are massivily single minded if they knew about earth and could get to it in hours/days that would have. But instead they crawled across the galaxy for years to reach it. So either they don't have transwarp, they are to stupid to be a threat, or transwarp is no where near compairable to hyperspace. Take your pick.

Ya just like they have adapted to fist. Oh wait they haven't. So if they can't stop a fist, or elbow, how are they going to top a slug? They arn't and they don't.

They have done nothing of the sort.

Simple the Federation is one of the most militarily inept races ever created, falling right after the kligons and the borg.

Please, they are Space Zombies. They WALK everywhere. They as slow as hell. They are weak enough to be tossed around by Worf, or DATA, a feaking low end droid when compaired to SW tech, and they are constatly ignoring targets in their own ship.

That have NO anti-armor weapons, no ranged weapons at all for that matter. They are weak as kittens in compairson. Where as Dark Troops and Deepspace Troopers, are HEAVILY armored and armed, ment for boarding actions against trained and WELL out fitted troops. What could they do?

And yet they can't punch packing materials. I would think that he wasn't talking about a very big or impressive building. That or as it was diolog, he was exagerating there effectivness. Much like Han saying the MF is the fastest ship in the galaxy.

The Defiant (a small warship) could destroy a small planet with two shots.


How?

hard to say, but the YOUNG races in SW are over 250,000 years old. So it is possible.

Only if they want to. Otherwise they can take ANY path they want, as long as the check of hazards, you know SCANNING across the GALAXY for them.

Technobable doesn't impress me. If you can't find the ship, you can't open on to it.

Ok so the weapons them selves have to detect went to phase and when no to. Meaning that they can be buggered up by jamming. No longer a issue.

Ah prototype tech, that is not in mass production or even in standard use. Not a issue again, given the low end production abililty of ST races. They would be dead before they could even produce more then a couple of the ships.

Doesn't have to be. Just that the other have them. There are no Midiclorians in a brick, but the brick can still be controlled.

They are all to dumb to even use cover for most battles.

They have NO good military hardware.

Getting better, but how big a distance. And against it's not in mass use. Not much help.

Much closer to warp, but still slower. Again only prototype and still have massive bugs in it. Fedarion would be dead before they could work it out.

Ah so the borg ARE restricted to their corridors and can't use it anywhere and everywhere.

Only useable in one place, and the race is dead, so inablilty to produce more. Useful, but limited in scale, much like the stargate, only able to move small forces, and not really usefull in space battles at all. Though could be effective in bypassing blockades and the like.

Prototype tech. Not in full use. They would be dead before they could bring it to bear. Though it is fairly useful, in select situations. Would work well if given to competent special forces units. To bad ST lacks them, and the kit to make them dangerous.

Might help a bit, but due to superior sensor tech on SW ships it probably wouldn't do too much.

Bugger it's sensors and it won't know where to go or when to phase back in. Not a threat.

Not usable as the current timeline would be unknown, meaning that if the Empire own those weapons would never be made.

Usless against a non-organic hull. Possibly useful against the Vong, but the blackhole shields that have would negate there effectiveness.

Impressive, but not effective as a weapon.

As SW ships are more then capible of handling the energies of a star. The only exception was ONE freak star that required special shield ships, and even the a ISD was able to be in it's area for a short time.

Useful against the planetary targets, that are not radiation hardend. But it would be easier just to bomb them form orbit, or release a bio weapon.

And unlike ST they can reenforce or attack other planets in Minutes(seconds) from their attacks, where as ST would take Days to Weeks.

Every weapon works on the first two or three Borg that encounter it. It's the drones that come after those first few you have to worry about

It was a direct quote established in VOY that the tubules can penetrate every allow and energy field. Must be that "selective memory" thing again.

Yet, they won the Dominion War.

Worf wasn't seen "tossing" drones, only Data; and Data is extremely strong and by some estimates, he can lift about 5 tons. Hell, in one episode he held back an ambulance that was attempting to run him over. He's hardly "low end" as he has even shrugged off machine gun fire

So, your troops shoot the first few then after that the Borg have adapted. At that point the must battle hand to hand, where they would get assimilated.

No, the Federation doen't place them on the higher settings until they have no alternative.

Sigh* We already covered this Dire. In Voyager it's established that a 54 isoton explosion is enough to destroy a small planet (The Omega Directive). It was established on DS9 that Quantum Torpedoes (the weapons carried on the Defiant, Enterprise-E, and other Federation ships of the line) have a maximum yield of 52.3 isotons each. Thus, two quantum torpedoes (two shots) can destroy a planet. (Notice what I just did? I stated a claim and then gave document proof to back it up; not just a wild claim of what I "think" would happen.)

Sorry, but SW cannon states that new routes are rarely, if ever plotted out and made.

up until I explained to you that it's a scientific FACT that all energy has frequencies.

When to phase and when not to? They phase as they are fired, then unphase a few nanometers from their targets.

It's not in mass production because the tech is illegal

You mean like the "Houdinis" (a type of subspace anti-personnel mines used by the Dominion during the Dominion War; the nickname "Houdini" was given to the devices by Starfleet troops on AR-558 because they hide in subspace and appear at random. The mines were a effective psychological weapon, because there was no way to predict when or where they appear.)

TR-116 rifle (a hand-held rifle-type weapon, a projectile weapon developed by Starfleet Security for use in dampening fields or radiogenic environments, where conventional energy weapons would be useless. The rifle fires a chemically propelled tritanium bullet with a modified micro-transporter, which allowes one to beam the bullet into another room or area, only 8-9 centimeters from its target. An exographic targeting sensor allowes one to scan through walls and target victims anywhere on the path of firing from a safe area.)?

It can be used across the Galaxy. Also, about this "it's not in mass use" thing you keep trying to bring up. First off, this tech is in mass use by the aliens that created it. Secondly, you seem to keep forgetting that it doesn't matter if only one species in the Galaxy has a tech,

First, it's superior to warp.

Second, in this fight the Federation isn't alone trying to figure out the tech. They have the total resources of their universe together (including the race that created the tech, and the Borg who are masters at adapting tech).

No, they aren't. Why have your ship expend it's power and resource to open a new conduit, when you have a pre-set up conduit ready for immediate use? This is getting old.

Why do I bother? The Borg could adapt the tech for use by the ST Alliance.

Unlike a Stargate, you don't need a gate on the other end to gate to. And as the portals have shown the ability to open up right on-board the bridge of other ships, it can be used in space battles to open a portal to an enemy ship, and toss a quantum torpedo INSIDE their ship.

I've already covered how quickly and well technology can be adapted and put to mass use.

Again you make a claim (this time about SW sensors being superior) w/o backing it up

It's pre-programmed and shot in a direct line. Messing with the sensors won't do anything.

Admiral Janway brought these weapons and technoly back from the future to the current timeline and Voyager took it with them back to Earth, so yes they're usable.

Uh, no. As it's been stated on Voyager, the standard Borg nanoprobe is progammed to assimilate all organic matter or technology that it comes into contact with.

Why have a large ship with bombs or bio-weapons, when you can have a small ship fire a wide beam and kill everything on the planet within 20 seconds?

How long does it take SW to produce a clone soldier?

Well, we saw how well that worked out for the Zentraedi.

We've NEVER seen a SW ship cross the galaxy in minutes. NEVER!

GL never fully thought out any of the crap he used in the movies and as I stated befor GL does not view the SW: books as pure cannon but barely cannon and that means half if not all the tech and races not seen in the movies is not around in the CANON Line at all.

and all the ST Tech has have Hard Facts ether from the Shows, Movies, or the CANNON BOOKs.

where in SW: there is no HARD FACTS to back up their Mobo jumbo crap that is seen in the movies.

also how can the SW: scaners be better if theu can not even pick up that peice of trash and flying scrap heap that solo flys around when it was attached to their own HALL?

Hell Star trek, MACROSS, robotech, BATTLETECH, & Star gate have better hard facts and info in the show then SW does.

its bad when robotech has better fact finding staff WHO know what they are talking about then a million dollar movie maker like GL.

my reason for the rant above is because I am getting tired of this back and forth.
DW you have never shown a CANON backing to any thing you talk about.

I do have one question. Do you guys ever watch these shows for enjoyment anymore? It seems like you spend too much time arguing irrelevant science fiction "Fact" to really just sit down and enjoy what you're watching. This is the something like the 4th string I've seen that had SW vs.ST and the result is always the same.

Here's an interesting twist for you DW. The only universe SW has to call on is it's own. ST has many thousands of parallel universes that have been hinted at in TOS, TNG, and Voyager. Suddenly, your numbers argument goes out the window, as does the argument that SW would overrun ST before their tech could be built up to fight.

since the REBELS would be smart enough not to try to attack ST in the first place. The REBELS, with all the same tech that the EMPIRE has, joins the ST horde

STAR TREK wins. Game over

Again not even close. Their ships mount pitifuly light guns when compaired to SWs. Not to mention the ships lack the shields, and size to brawl with any SW capital ships. You want to know how truly pathetic ST weapons are when compaired to SW? The Cargo hold of Slave-1 has more destructive power then a ENTIRE FEDERATION FLEET. One sizemic charge is able to do many times what the ENITRE torpedo payload of a Galaxy Class Ship can do. And those same charges are next to useless on anything but astorids and fighters, and the bigboys shields wouldn't even bat an eye when getting hit by one of those. So if Slave one can't handle even the lightest warship, and it has more firepower then a entire Federation fleet, what hope is there for them when taking on battlefleets of dozens of ISDs and supportships? NONE.

So can SW that can scan paths across a galaxy. Or detech ships coming in hyperspace.

Nope because they still were able to find the base, land their forces and get them off the planet. Where as ST has traped hundreds of Awayteams over the years on planet, space stations or ships.

It would seem that it is given that they sent their queen after it. Besides the Borg are massivily single minded if they knew about earth and could get to it in hours/days that would have. But instead they crawled across the galaxy for years to reach it. So either they don't have transwarp, they are to stupid to be a threat, or transwarp is no where near compairable to hyperspace. Take your pick.

Ya just like they have adapted to fist. Oh wait they haven't. So if they can't stop a fist, or elbow, how are they going to top a slug? They arn't and they don't.

Simple the Federation is one of the most militarily inept races ever created, falling right after the kligons and the borg.

They have done nothing of the sort. Also SW is NOT a known alloy, and it able to protect a trooper from the equivialent of a heavy machine gun round, with little issue.

Please, they are Space Zombies. They WALK everywhere. They as slow as hell. They are weak enough to be tossed around by Worf, or DATA, a feaking low end droid when compaired to SW tech, and they are constatly ignoring targets in their own ship.

And yet they can't punch packing materials. I would think that he wasn't talking about a very big or impressive building. That or as it was diolog, he was exagerating there effectivness. Much like Han saying the MF is the fastest ship in the galaxy.

Only if they want to. Otherwise they can take ANY path they want, as long as the check of hazards, you know SCANNING across the GALAXY for them.

And as I just said, the Defiant (the Federation's smallest class of warship) ca destroy a small planet with two shots. Can a Star Destroyer do the same?


Again how?

Ok so the weapons them selves have to detect went to phase and when no to. Meaning that they can be buggered up by jamming. No longer a issue.

Ah prototype tech, that is not in mass production or even in standard use. Not a issue again, given the low end production abililty of ST races. They would be dead before they could even produce more then a couple of the ships.

Doesn't have to be. Just that the other have them. There are no Midiclorians in a brick, but the brick can still be controlled.

It's much the same as this one, but much easier. ST has SOME tech that APPROCH the abilitly to bring them on par in some areas as SW, but due to them no being deployed or ironed out. By the time they could bring them out they are already dead. The Empire alone would walk over ANY alpha quadrent race in weeks, if you though in the New Republic, Chiss, Su-viruk, and Vong. It drops down to days. The borg in a few weeks and and of the other races that voyager ran in to for the most part in days. And unlike ST the Empire alone has the Numbers to attack really EVERY major race at the same time. And unlike ST they can reenforce or attack other planets in Minutes(seconds) from their attacks, where as ST would take Days to Weeks.