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Till  
Rank: Private

Subject: Discrepancies in length of SDF-1 in Robotech saga & original Macross saga, 1,210m versus 1,500m ? 
Started on: March 26, 2012 - 2:53:03 AM

From the original Macross animation & various official website of Macross, the actual length of SFD-1 has length of 1,500m.

For Robotech universe, the SDF-1 has length of 1,210 m in length, as show in this website.

That kind of difference in length can be very serious because it can determine a lot of other factors, like affect the size of Macross city in it, its maximum crew intake & the type of weapon it could carry.

The length of the Zentraedi warships in this Robotech website are basically similar to that of the original Macross saga.
So can anyone or Robotech producers explain these discrepancies to the fans world wide???
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Response 1 of 18 

rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: Till 
Posted on: March 26, 2012 - 4:16:11 AM
Edited on: March 26, 2012 - 4:16:44 AM

Robotech is not Macross and Macross is not Robotech. While they share the animation of SDF: Macross, they are completely different stories.

You can NOT use ANYTHING from Macross source materials for Robotech and you can NOT use ANYTHING from Robotech source materials for Macross.

Now, lets not have your usual "that doesn't make sense" posts. This is the rule... No Macross Source Material is valid (in any way, shape or form) when discussing Robotech and no Robotech source material is valid (in any way, shape or form) when discussion Macross. They are separate shows and must be treated as such.

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Proto Invid  
Rank: Private 1st Class

Subject: rhade 
Posted on: March 26, 2012 - 5:04:57 PM

the first time I saw a Macros animation, it blew my mind; I forget which one I saw but it in no way shape or form could have been related to RT, but still shared the name macross. HG should have bought copy righted and trade marked the name Macross so this sort of confusion wouldn't happen.

No matter where you go, there you are (Buckarue Bonsi).

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mecha2241a  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: This is just wrong 
Posted on: March 26, 2012 - 5:15:23 PM
Edited on: March 26, 2012 - 5:21:32 PM


the first time I saw a Macros animation, it blew my mind; I forget which one I saw but it in no way shape or form could have been related to RT, but still shared the name macross. HG should have bought copy righted and trade marked the name Macross so this sort of confusion wouldn't happen.


You do realize that the series "SDF Macross" predates Robotech and that the people in Japan who created it are fully in the right to create as many sequels as they want to it don't you?

As far as the ship's length, both Robotech and SDF Macross agree that the length is 1210 meters. I don't know where the length of 1500 meters comes from.

This link, while not from an official source, does use official translations for Macross stats:

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/macross.htm

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rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: Proto Invid 
Posted on: March 27, 2012 - 7:31:52 AM


HG should have bought copy righted and trade marked the name Macross so this sort of confusion wouldn't happen.
They did, for every where outside Japan. HG has the rights outside Japan and Big West has them inside Japan.

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Proto Invid  
Rank: Private 1st Class

Subject: .. 
Posted on: March 27, 2012 - 10:25:31 PM

Cartoon network has shown macross animies within the past 10 years.

The macross I'm refering to doesn't have SDF, it had one micronized male zent. I don't remember them haveing any enemies to fight. There was a super computer that tried to take control. and a very "blured" naked woman.

No matter where you go, there you are (Buckarue Bonsi).

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rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: Proto Invid 
Posted on: March 28, 2012 - 7:06:34 AM
Edited on: March 28, 2012 - 7:06:48 AM

I believe your referring to Macross Plus, which has already been in the US under the HG banner. HG did manage to get Mcross Plus and Macross II into the US before the legal battle started in Japan.

- 85ER -
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renegadeleader  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: hmmmm 
Posted on: March 28, 2012 - 5:56:07 PM


I believeyour referring to Macross Plus, which has already been in the US under the HG banner. HG did manage to get Mcross Plus and Macross II into the US before the legal battle started in Japan.


I wasn't aware HG had anything to do with bringing Macross Plus and Macross II to the states. Manga Entertainment as far as I know did it on their own, and HG didn't do anything, because as Tommy Yune put it "No one was minding the store".

Since then the court case in Japan happened resulting in Tatsunoko getting and HG along with them the rights to the original SDF: Macross series, but not the rights to the sequels or the ability to make their own direct Macross sequel. This doesn't apply to things like games, toys, comics, or robotech animation as long as it doesn't involve macross imagery.

HG tried to negotiate with Big West to get shows like Macross 7, but BW essentially told them to go to hell. In response HG trademarked the word Macross in just about every country on earth except Japan where it got rejected.

Doing this has essentially blocked anyone else from negotiating with BW for the rights to Macross shows, and made HG the only one BW can go to the get more Macross in the United States.

Hence the situation we are currently in.

Chalmers: Okay, what did you do to this?
Wolff: Emergency repair procedure number one.
Chalmers: You kicked it?

"The gutter in here is wide and deep... and all seem to be in it..."-HT

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rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: renegadeleader 
Posted on: March 28, 2012 - 10:11:20 PM

Your half right. HG wasn't properly minding the store. HG was active in bring Mac Ii and Mac + plus to the US, but allowed Manga to distribute then let the license go to Manga. However, HG holds the trademark on Macross. So, for Mac II and Mac + to be released, in the US, someone at HG had to rubber stamp aproval to let Manga Entertainment distribute them. Further, since HG holds the trademark, nothing with the Macross name can be released with the HG banner on it. That doesn't mean HG was paying 100% attention, but they had to have an active hand in getting it here because of trade mark laws. It was a case of "as long as we get our comission, we'll get it and let you handle it from there."

- 85ER -
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CAG OF THE D.O.L.

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Proto Invid  
Rank: Private 1st Class

Subject: But 
Posted on: March 28, 2012 - 11:07:18 PM
Edited on: March 28, 2012 - 11:10:15 PM

But that screws up cont., they allowed it to come in and air with macross banner. That's a statement from HG saying it's good to go even if they say it isn't. S.N.A.F.U. (ex)military members will understand those leters, to those who don't "decorim" dictates that I can't spell it out

Oh b.t.w., doesn't till realize just how long this website's been up, and that the forums get clear after a long while, and that he's not the first to point out all of his leingthy posts?

No matter where you go, there you are (Buckarue Bonsi).

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renegadeleader  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: Rhade... 
Posted on: March 29, 2012 - 2:35:10 AM

Before I begin I want to ask, do you really want to get into another argument with me over licensed anime?


Your half right. HG wasn't properly minding the store. HG was active in bring Mac Ii and Mac + plus to the US, but allowed Manga to distribute then let the license go to Manga. However, HG holds the trademark on Macross. So, for Mac II and Mac + to be released, in the US, someone at HG had to rubber stamp aproval to let Manga Entertainment distribute them. Further, since HG holds the trademark, nothing with the Macross name can be released with the HG banner on it. That doesn't mean HG was paying 100% attention, but they had to have an active hand in getting it here because of trade mark laws. It was a case of "as long as we get our comission, we'll get it and let you handle it from there."


First off I'm guessing you mean "without the HG banner on it" and not "with". Secondly I have the VHS copy of Macross II and Macross Plus right in front of me.

Here's what the copyright print says:

Macross II
Exclusively licensed throughout the United States and Canada by Manga Entertainment, Inc 1992, 1993 BIG WEST/MACROSS II PROJECT English Language Version, Package Design & Summary 1995 MANGA Entertainment, Inc

Macross Plus
Exclusively licensed throughout the United States and Canada by Manga Entertainment, Inc 1994/1995 Big West/Macross Plus Project. English Language Version, Package Design & Summary 1999 Manga Entertainment, Inc

There are no HG logos, no licensed by HG, no HG, and the later released Macross Plus box set reads like this:

Exclusively licensed throughout the United States and Canada by Manga Entertainment, Inc 1994/1995 Big West/Macross Plus Project. English Language Version, Package Design & Summary 1999 Manga Entertainment, Inc Package Design 2005 Elizabeth Stroll / Manga Entertainment, Inc. Summary 2005 Manga Entertainment

HG had nothing to do with Macross Plus and II being released.

Chalmers: Okay, what did you do to this?
Wolff: Emergency repair procedure number one.
Chalmers: You kicked it?

"The gutter in here is wide and deep... and all seem to be in it..."-HT

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rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: renegadeleader 
Posted on: March 29, 2012 - 7:27:38 AM

As I said, you HALF right. Note the information included in what you provided contains copyright but NOT the information on the trademark. HG owns a trademark on the name "Macross." Meaning NO product can be released with the name "Macross" on it with out HG's involvement. That is just simple the law. So, it was released under HG's banner, your just looking at copyright info and not looking for trademark statements. Copyright and trade mark are not the same and often listed in different spots. As to the license itself, for international purposes (outside Japan) the right to license Macross Products was handled by HG. Remember, this is BEFORE the law suites in Japan. So, with that said, they were licensed from Big West, by way of HG. To give you an example of how this works, when your lawyer signs a contract on your behalf it is the same as you signing it. In this case, prior to the law suites, HG could (and actually still can) act on behalf of Big West. You might want to read up on international laws a bit.

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renegadeleader  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: Rhade 
Posted on: March 31, 2012 - 5:29:10 AM


That is just simple the law. So, it was released under HG's banner, your just looking at copyright info and not looking for trademark statements. Copyright and trade mark are not the same and often listed in different spots. As to the license itself, for international purposes (outside Japan) the right to license Macross Products was handled by HG. Remember, this is BEFORE the law suites in Japan. So, with that said, they were licensed from Big West, by way of HG.


There are no trademark statements anywhere on the packaging and they aren't in the credits either. HG didn't trade mark "Macross" untill 1999 and 2002 after Macross plus and II were released in the states so they might be S.O.L. as far as they are concerned.

Still why not just go straight to the horses mouth email Tommy, Steve, and Kev and ask exactly how much HG had to do with Macross Plus, and Macross II. I'm pretty sure they will say none. We can also ask Palladium too since HG wasn't exactly happy about them going to BW for the rights to the Macross II game.

Anyways here's a breakdown on what HG owns all things named robotech aside:

The distribution rights to the original SDF: Macross footage from Tatsunoko to edit as they want.
Merchandising rights to SDF: Macross from tatsunoko
Merchandising rights to Macross DYRL from tatsunoko
Trademark for the word "Macross" in USA
Trademark for the word "U.N. Spacy" in USA

What HG doesn't own
Animation Character designs for SDF:Macross belong to Studio Nue(This prevents HG making from making new animation using the original character likenesses. It doesn't apply to comics etc because they are merchendise)

Big West owns the IP for SDF Macross and derivatives(plus, II, 7, Frontier, etc) this is why everything has gone Mospeada with not a single sniff of Macross has shown up in SC animation, and BW can go on making sequels.

Chalmers: Okay, what did you do to this?
Wolff: Emergency repair procedure number one.
Chalmers: You kicked it?

"The gutter in here is wide and deep... and all seem to be in it..."-HT

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rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: renegadeleader 
Posted on: March 31, 2012 - 7:14:20 AM

I was going to provide a big long post to prove you wrong and then I found something in you post that already proves you don't know what your talking about...


Animation Character designs for SDF: Macross belong to Studioe Nue


WRONG!!!

Studio Nue was bought by Big West in the middle of the suite and therefor was no longer a party in thefinal decision. The final decision awarded Bw the story and sequel rights, but gave Tats (and therefor HG) all the rights to anything animated in SDF: Macross. While HG can use the characters from Macross, they have chosen not to to avoid offending Big West and, possibly, becoming entangled in an international dispute.

As to asking Kevin, Tommy and/or Steve.... I didn't have to ask. This has been covered, multiple times, at several cons, by Steve, Tommy, and Kevin.

Now, as to the trademark, your again wrong. Even BW has stated that HG owns an international (outside Japan) trademark. That is not just US. The ify part come in that some countries don't honor international trademarks or copyrights. However, that's neither her nor there in this discussion. Also trademarking don't have to be displayed (as they do with copyright info). So, justgbecause it's not listed in the copyright section is an erronious error on your part.

Lastly, your ignoring that HG killed the first gen battle tech and "clash of the bionoids" well before 1999. Proving that HG was, infact, already asserting their property rights long before 1999.

In short, your listenning too muvh to MacrossWorld and not doing any research on your own that proves the drivel on macrossworl, about this legal mess, is wrong as far as HG goes. I can continue to kill your argument, but it's not needed as you already killed your own position and, irregardless, it doesn't affect the short summory I already provided above. The fact is, if it's outside Japan and under the Macross name, it's under HG's banner per multiple court cases and trademarking. Simple as that.

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renegadeleader  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: Rhade... 
Posted on: April 1, 2012 - 3:05:33 AM

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-02-23/tatsunoko-wins-macross-lawsuit

This is the article from the anime news network detailing what Tatsunoko got in their wining the appeal to the Japan supreme court. In it you'll also note this case seperate from the supreme court case.

In a separate court case, currently under appeal at the Supreme Court, the Tokyo High Court ruled that Studio Nue owns the character designs related to Super Dimensional Fortress Macross.

This is the latest ruling so far concerning the characters designs, as a finding in the Supreme court hasn't been come to yet. Being as such its very clear as things stand right now Big West/Studio Nue own the character rights. If you are aware of a newer court finding with by all means point me to it.

Now then...

As to asking Kevin,Tommy and/or Steve.... I didn't have to ask. This has been covered, multiple times, at several cons, by Steve, Tommy, and Kevin.


I really don't give a damn what is said at a con, unless there is video or written transcripts. The burden of proof is on you.


Now, as to the trademark, your again wrong. Even BW has stated that HG owns an international (outside Japan) trademark. That is not just US.


The point of contention we are arguing in this pertains to the U.S. as such I had no interest in reciting every damn country HG trademarked "Macross" in. For your benefit maybe I should have been more specific.


Lastly, your ignoring that HG killed the first gen battle tech and "clash of the bionoids" well before 1999. Proving that HG was, infact, already asserting their property rights long before 1999.


First of all do you have any proof HG took any legal action against Toho or the home video company that released it to "kill" Clash of the Bionoids?

As for battletech HG did nothing concerning the design rights from 1984 when battletech was founded as battledroids to 1996 when FASA sued playmates over the heavy assault e-frame design and HG got dragged into it via the exosquad+robotech line. At this point at the end of another lawsuit that found that FASA did not have a license to any of the designs. 12 years went by before HG did anything to defend their rights, and it wasn't originally of their own doing. Also 1996 is not "long before" 1999.


In short, your listenning too muvh to MacrossWorld and not doing any research on your own that proves the drivel on macrossworl, about this legal mess,is wrong as far as HG goes.


I've done much of my own research and take no ones words for truth without digging of my own. Like it or not macrossworld has done a fairly good job of keeping resource material, news articles and links to legal rulings/documents. Meanwhile with you I get nothing other than "shut up I'm right" with no proof to back it up and an arrogant condescending attitude. If you think macrossworld is wrong go there and prove it(I would like that if you could) don't sit back and act like the king of the roost.

Chalmers: Okay, what did you do to this?
Wolff: Emergency repair procedure number one.
Chalmers: You kicked it?

"The gutter in here is wide and deep... and all seem to be in it..."-HT

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rhade  
Rank: Master Chief Sgt

Subject: renegadeleader 
Posted on: April 1, 2012 - 4:18:46 AM

Animenews is obviously out of date. The Japanes Court ruling has been out, and available for reading on the web. I suggest you actually read it (as I have). The Supreme Court ruled a few years ago. Your information is flawed, out of date, and just plain wrong.

If you do a search, on this website, you'll find a thread where SetoKaiba, and I, debated the final ruling and even provided the links to the final rulings. Tats got ALL the animation rights.. even character designs. Hence why HG is trying to reuse Roy Foker's image in their teaser on facebook (though I think the design is wrong).

Once again, I was going to do a big long post proving you wrong, but it's already done (on this site) so no point. It's obvious your only interested in spouting how little you know, assumptions your making, and not reading the facts. That's your right. As it is my right to say, "I don't have time to waste on debating with someone who only wants to spout MacrossWorld propaganda without doing the leg work to see how wrong he is." Hence why I now with draw from further conversation with you. Arguing with someone who won't avail himself of the correct informaion is as poitless as talking to a rock and expecting an answer.

- 85ER -
MEMBER OF D.O.M.A.D.
CAG OF THE D.O.L.

- Carl Macek, to the stars and beyond time, you are not forgotten -

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renegadeleader  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: okay... 
Posted on: April 1, 2012 - 5:11:53 AM

How about instead of being a douche you point me in the right direction so I see what you are getting at. Which forum is it in? Where did you get get a copy of the final ruling to read online?


Arguing with someone who won't avail himself of the correct informaion is as poitless as talking to a rock and expecting an answer.


I find this highly amusing coming from you especially after you argued with me for over 2 weeks that Queen's Blade was under license from Funimation not media blasters, after I gave you multiple pieces of evidence it wasn't. You even came up with B.S. things like the "oh the license was aquired by funimation" or "media blasters lent it to funimation to get it on netflix". You even argued how many seasons there were! Come to find out it was your own outdated media center program that you were using as "proof" and you were dead wrong with it.

To me you have no credibility untill you back it up with proof! You also got a lot of nerve calling me a macrossworld propagandist.

Chalmers: Okay, what did you do to this?
Wolff: Emergency repair procedure number one.
Chalmers: You kicked it?

"The gutter in here is wide and deep... and all seem to be in it..."-HT

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renegadeleader  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: hmmmm 
Posted on: April 1, 2012 - 9:57:34 PM


. Hence why HG is trying to reuse Roy Foker's image in their teaser on facebook (though I think the design is wrong).


Oh you mean the april fool's joke that is the Southern Cross character George Sullivan? Certainly made the fool of you.

Chalmers: Okay, what did you do to this?
Wolff: Emergency repair procedure number one.
Chalmers: You kicked it?

"The gutter in here is wide and deep... and all seem to be in it..."-HT

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Kevin McKeever  
Rank: Captain

Subject: Folks... 
Posted on: April 2, 2012 - 5:07:47 PM

Lets ease off on the personal insults and the thread has verred off topic.

Locking.

Have A nice Day.

Kevin McKeever
ROBOTECH.com

Your BankofKev since 1998.

kev@robotech.com
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